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Transcript Title	Bennett, Geoff (O2018.3)
Interviewee	Geoff Bennett (GB)
Interviewer	Janet Holmes (JH)
Date	27/01/2017
Transcriber by	Stephen McEnally (using Otter.Ai for initial transcript)

Transcript

Hertford Oral History Group

Recording No: O 2018.3

Interviewees: Geoff Bennett (GB)

Date: 27th Jan 2017

Venue: Queens Rd, Hertford

Interviewers: Janet Holmes (JH)

Transcriber: Stephen McEnally (using Otter.Ai for initial transcript)

Typed by: Stephen McEnally checked by Mark Green

************** unclear recording

[discussion] untranscribed material

italics editor’s notes

JH: This is a recording of Geoff Bennett made at his home, 89, Queens Rd, Hertford on the 27th January 2017 by Janet Holmes, Hertford Oral History Group.

[There is a gap in the recording between the introduction (above) and the body of the interview (below)]

GB: So, we were working in East Africa, in fact in Kenya, and came back to England in 1971. And – err - I got a job with Eastern Gas in Enfield and looked around for somewhere to live. So, we were staying with my wife's parents, up in Sheffield. No home or anything. And - err- I came down - we didn't know this area at all. But just looking at the map, Hertford was a logical place to live in order to catch a train to be able to go into Enfield each day. And I didn't realise at the time, but houses were very scarce, which they were in the summer of ‘71. And in fact, this is about the only house for sale of the sort we were looking for - which is really three or four bedrooms - available. So being a completely naive buyer, I sort of saw it, I looked at it, liked it, and said, ‘Well, I'd like to look around’. Well, the next three or four weeks produced very little in the way of [indistinct] So I came back here. The chap in the meantime had sold the house, the sale had fallen through. So, I was able to pick up where I had left off. So, we moved in here in October 1971.

But one thing that is interesting from an oral history point of view is that when I first came, which was probably August of ‘71, I went down into town to buy a local newspaper to see what houses were for sale, and came across a procession, which I later realised was a very last Assizes Court in Hertford. So, I went down to Church Street to pick up a newspaper and, walking past Shire Hall, proceeding past Shire Hall, were people in wigs and judiciary clothing. And I didn't – I thought how charming – in a market town with its own sort of Assizes Court, but I didn't appreciate – was - that this is a very last Assizes Court. So, I can actually put a date to it. It was August ‘71.

We moved - so we moved in in October. And we had two children at the time. They both went to school at Chalk - what was called Chalk Dell in those days. I think it's now called Morgan's Walk Junior School. So, they walked up to School. And at that time, the upper part of Queens Rd was unmade. It was just a rough track. And in fact, for the next few years, if I had a load of stones in the garden, I would dispose of them by filling up the potholes in the - in the lane. But of course, that has since been tarmacked over and is now a proper road. Erm - I can't remember anything very significant about Hertford in - in the 1970s. By the end, of course a bypass had been completed. So, I never knew Hertford before the bypass was put in, which was, kind of, the major thing that happened to the town in - in the last century. I do remember - ah yes - where the Hertford Theatre is - that was just an open rough old car park. It was completely unmade. You just took your chances and left your car there. And that was the situation for two or three years, I think, probably. So, it's probably the mid ‘70s that that started to be built - the theatre there. I guess the multi-storey carpark was already in place, I think, by the time I came there. Umm - of course, and everyone will say this, the traffic was far less dense than it is now. And I used to cycle with a child on the back of a bicycle quite happily down across Gascoyne Way and into town. Which is something - I’d think twice about doing it now. I can't think of anything else I particularly want to say about those early years. So - switch that off now.

JH: So, Geoff, do you want to say a bit about the - your involvement with the Art Society?

GB: I joined the Art Society in about 2005 I would think, as I was approaching - finishing my work – retirement. And that time we met in the Hall in Fore St. Um - ah dear - Market Street, blimey - can’t think of its name? - will come to me in a minute. Anyway, that's where we met. And it was a thriving society then. And it subsequently moved to Cowbridge and continues to be a thriving society. I would say that its membership has stayed at a constant 140,150. However, what has happened is, when it was first started - which people like Trevor Chamberlain can talk to you about - or if you look at the membership then, they were all in their 20s and 30s. And that was about 50 years ago, I suppose. And now they're all in their 70s and 80s. So, the sort of - the diehard members - have kind of grown up with the society. We, of course, get younger people joining. But the average age was - has kind of gone up pretty well in time with the actual number of years in the past, is my guess. It’s continued to thrive - oh - one thing that we started in 2008 - and this is what Frances Green is heavily involved in - is in the collaboration with the Hertford Choral Society. They give four concerts a year. Their Spring soncert is always - err - some kind of religious text - or normally a religious text or libretto. And we illustrate that concert with large pictures of - hang on the pillars. So, it's - I think they welcome it. And we welcome it as a chance for two major societies in Hertford to kind of work together. And I set this up and then agreed with them that, in return for our illustrating their concerts, we would be allowed to attend the last rehearsal on the Saturday afternoon to paint them in action. Which is a rare opportunity to paint a full orchestra, choir, soloists, conductor all doing their thing while we beaver away in the neighbourhood church, illustrating it. I think that's all I can say about the Art Society.

JH: So - what - what’s your involvement though – you -?

GB: Well, I used to organise a programme. They meet every Tuesday, either to do practical things like painting or workshops, or attending critiques. One – we - a very varied programme every Tuesday. I used to organise the programme. I then chaired it for three years. And subsequently moved on and - err - gracefully handed over to someone else. So - so now I'm just an active member, and there's so – well, we …we well at the moment we paint every week, or at least we attend every week. But we also hold two exhibitions a year as well.

JH: Right? So, what sort of painting do you do? What’s your -?

GB: So, what do I do? Well – ah - that’s a point. Before I joined the Art Society, I knew really very little indeed about painting. I’d done one or two things but what the Art Society encourages you to do is well - follow whatever interests you. So, we have in the Art Society people who enjoy watercolours or oils, some of the printmakers, collage makers, acrylic painters, and I personally tend to do a bit of everything really – been doing a bit of sculpting as well. So, the Art Society is a very broad kind of, set of interests. And - and it does attract a lot of talent, in fact. It’s easily the best amateur society for a big radius around here, I would say. I suspect, there's probably not a society that is as well-known or produces such good work for probably, aww, 30- or 40-miles radius. I don't know.

JH: Why is that then, why is that?

GB: Yes, it's partly because it's always - had a very - it's had some very good painters. Trevor Chamberlain mainly being the obvious example. A professional painter, somebody who has managed to - to raise a family entirely by the efforts of his own work. I mean, most professional painters have to teach at university or run classes or do one thing or another- or write books or, one way or another, supplement an income, that - they - that’s not sufficient just from their paintings. Trevor is exceptional in that he has never had to do any of that. It is entirely from his painting. So, when you've got people like that in the Society here, he personally attracts people of a similar level - not quite so high perhaps - through personal contacts. And that raises the whole standard. We don't muck around. We know we have to be serious about it. So, I think - I think probably quality breeds quality.

JH: Yeah. So, most people who join are already - have a - some sort of talent, would you say?

GB: Some sort of talent. Yeah, I suppose so, yes, I guess. Ah now, I’m - probably a portion of the membership are passive. So, we have 140, 150 members. But on an evening, about 40 will turn up so about - shall we say a third. And on a practical evening, maybe fewer. So, you could argue maybe a third of the membership are regular painters. Probably another third beaver away in their own studios or homes. And I suspect at least a third are just - are there - for the - um - for the lectures, the talks and critiques and things that we get into, perhaps? Well, I think maybe a lot of people, because they’re shy about painting and see the standard, and perhaps don't put in stuff for the exhibitions. So it cuts both ways. If one has too high a standard, it will deter the less talented. I think that's probably how it happens. In fact, what the Art Society does is to spawn little local groups. So, people of a like mind meet together, they kind of suss out standards, and they form their own little paint group. So, for example, I paint every Wednesday in Stapleford with about seven or eight other people, most of whom are members of the Art Society. So, I think the Art Society acts as an umbrella organisation for a lot of local groups,

JH: So, a lot of spin offs?

GB: Yes, there are a lot of spin offs Yes and people hold little workshops in their own homes and invite their friends along – that sort of thing.

JH: So, there is sort of encouragement for people who…

GB: Absolutely, Oh, yes.

JH: …have a latent talent perhaps, or just an interest in what…

GB: Yes, yes, I think we're very - I hope we're a welcoming group. And we don't frighten off people who are a bit unsure. I mean, no one is confident when they first join. And - err - they will sort of attend these sessions, probably not barely daring to paint themselves, possibly. But they begin and then they begin to sort of do a bit of modest drawing and stuff and soon get into some of it. And similarly, once a month, we invite people to bring pictures in for discussion. And I suspect initially, people tend to just come along, and then comes a day when they bring their picture in, and then realise that no one ever gets criticised in a negative kind of way. It is entirely positive.

JH: So, it's all quite constructive?

GB: It is, yes. And it probably encourages budding amateur artists to - to spread their wings. And that is what happens. So, when you see me, for example, oh, I started watercolour painting, which is the most difficult thing of all, and I wouldn't recommend it to any beginner. But I didn’t know any better. Then as you're painting on - some people are painting in oils, people are painting in acrylics - you realise, well, there are other media and you realise there are easier media than watercolor. And so I moved on to acrylics, and for several years, painted with acrylics, which was a heck of a sight easier. And just recently decided to - moved over to oils, or at least I haven’t finally decided. I just find myself painting more and more in oils. So, looking around your colleagues, you can see what other techniques, what other approaches to take - and take a bit of that action.

JH: So that, er, kind of everyone can develop?

GB: Yeah. Yeah and they do. Oh, and Linda Radford, our ex-Mayor, is a classic example. Her paintings improved enormously. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind me saying this. And it’s because she's painting with others and is able to see how they project work.

JH: And you do a series of lectures as well, do you – talks?

GB: Yes. So, so I've mentioned earlier. We meet every Tuesday, and the programme is divided about equally between active and passive. The passive includes talks either on artists or on techniques, or it - or demonstrations. So this Tuesday, for example, we've got, I don't know who it is, but we've got a painter coming along, a professional painter, who will paint in front of us in oils - a still life of some sort, and talk us through why he's doing what he’s doing as he goes along. So those evenings - that's what I call passive, those evenings where you don't do anything. You just sit in the audience and absorb what is being told to you. And that consumes about half of our programme. And then the other half is when we pile in with our own paints, or whatever, and do a life study or a still life or some setup the programme organiser has organised. So yes, so for five years, I used to set this up every Tuesday, and enroll a whole load of lecturers’ talks throughout the year. I say throughout the year, that’s not quite true. In the spring, in May, we go out into the country and paint in the - and spend our Tuesday evenings painting, somewhere in one of the villages around here. And that goes on until August. We do have a three week pause then. And then start again in September with - back in the Hall in Cowbridge.

JH: Um, right, yes

GB: That’s how it works. I ran the programme for the Hertford Art Society for five years, then chaired the Hertford Art Society for three years. One of the duties of that was to, sort of, head up the Open Exhibition, which we hold every year in May - in Cowbridge nowadays. And part of that is to welcome guests to the private view, which takes place immediately after the hanging. What happens is that, on a Saturday, towards the end of April, we collect all of the pictures from aspiring exhibitors. And something like 600 pictures get carried to the Hall where they are then judged by a panel of three judges, three young professional painters or art historians entirely unconnected with the Society. So their view is completely uninfluenced by the Society.

Out of the 600 pictures that are submitted, something like 250 are selected. We hand back the unselected pictures to often some rather disappointed artists in the afternoon. We store the 250 select pictures. The following Saturday, we hang all of the pictures and then in the evening, have a private view where previous buyers and artists are invited in for a drink. And, of course, the opportunity to buy the exhibits before the show opens formally to the public. Our Patron, that is the Patron of the Hertford Art Society, is Lord Salisbury. He often comes. He's very good at turning up. It's always a pleasure to meet him. As Chairman, it was my job to give a welcoming speech. And I think on the third occasion, I noticed in the audience two people, I knew, sort of listening to my every word and watching me and I was pleased that they were taking such a close interest in what I had to say. And it was after that that one of them came up to me and said would I like to be Chairman of the East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society, which is a different kind of Art Society, who operates out of Broxbourne. The East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society – it -meets once a month to hear excellent lectures on an aspect of art. They also run outings. They also have special interest days. So they have a whole programme. But it's entirely a sort of sedentary kind of organisation. You come along to receive information, lectures about art of all sorts, or to go out and visit places. There's no practical painting aspect to it. This is how - it serves a useful function. It covers, as its name implies, East Herts. So we get people from Broxbourne, Hoddesdon, Harlow - which is actually outside Hertfordshire - the villages all around. Err - again, a membership - oh no - the membership is about 400. There's only one session. We get about 220 people in. We meet in the Broxbourne Theatre, called Spotlight these days, which has a lovely big Hall, super viewing facilities, a large screen that really show up the slides of the pictures. So, it's a really - it's a successful Society again, rather like the Hertford Art Society in that respect. It's - it was called the East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society until November of 2017 when it decided to rebrand itself in line with its parent organisation.

So there used to be NADFAS, National Association of Decorative and Fine Arts. They decided after 50 years, - it's their Golden Anniversary year, this year, 2018. They decided in time for their Golden Anniversary, they would - well they were no longer a national society, they are international. They have branches across Europe. They have 40 branches in the activities in Australia, and New Zealand. So, they're definitely International and ‘decorative and fine arts’ has about it a sort of slightly difficult ring - sounds a bit limiting as well. So, they wanted to drop that part of it. So, the centre, NADFAS, rebranded itself as the Art Society, and then individual societies around the country were encouraged to adopt the same formula. So, in November, as Chairman of the East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society, I got our members to agree to a change of name to - erm - our new name, The Art Society East Herts. I hope by the time that people kind of read about the oral history that it - this will be a well-known brand. At the moment it's - it's a completely non-starter. No - no one knows what the hell it is. Erm - yeah, so having chaired the Hertford Art Society, I then went on to chair the East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society for three years and only last month, handed that over as well so I’m now free of all chairmanships.

JH: So, you’re not looking at another one?

GB: I’m not looking at another one, no. I actually want to spend more time painting, I have to say. And in fact, when I was - some years ago when I used to do the programme for the Hertford Art Society, I would ask painters to come along to talk and they would say, you know, frankly, I can use my time, more profitably by painting, than by coming along to talk about it. And I admire that. I thought yes, I'm sure you're absolutely right. That's okay. That happens only in rare occasions. And usually, painters are fairly happy to talk about painting even though – some – well some - you can't generalise - some are introvert, and some are extrovert. Even the fairly quiet ones, once they get on to their favourite subject, they talk. Oh, and the other thing about painters is that they are very happy to share precious knowledge. So again, it's not a totally – it doesn't apply in all cases. But there are plenty of artists who - are only too happy to explain how they get the effects that they do get. And they're very generous in their advice and guidance. Which is lovely.

JH: So, are you getting some younger people into both societies, would you say - or?

GB: We are – we are - getting younger people into the Hertford Art Society, the practical one. I think the main thing that mitigates against that, of course, is that people are ever so busy. So, the people we want are bringing up children and going to work and all the rest of it. And, of course, painting does take a long, …lino cuts for example, printmaking. It all takes a long time, really. However, we do manage to attract a reasonable stream of younger people. Yeah. And occasionally - occasionally we get - even students of art in. But I think it's self-selecting because the membership is mostly in their 70s, I would guess, or that’s the average kind of age, yes, 60s and 70s. I guess young people feel a bit uncomfortable and they tend to sort of drift in and drift out again. That's all. So that - all of that is the Hertford Art Society. The, what used to be the Decorative and Fine Art Society, that was centered in Broxbourne, no, I would say we don't get young people at all.

JH: Are the talks during the day?

GB: Yes, yes, they are. And that works against us. And there are some societies who either have both a day and an evening lecture or just an evening lecture. I think they probably are more successful in getting people who work during the day.

JH: Yes. It's difficult, isn't it? If the - the groups become older and older in age. You really want to see some continuing.

GB: Yes, of course. And - and the same fate, you can see is facing the Hertford Choral Society. Frances Green is a member of that. We know quite a few of the people. Frances is a startling exception. I mean, most - most of the people in that Choir, when you look at them, you can see they’re - they’re - pretty old.

JH: So, it is - I mean, so it's potentially a bit of a problem, isn't it, for these societies that are flourishing?

GB: I think is a very big problem. Yes. I - I fear that in 10 years’ time, I don't know, I can't see the Hertford Choral Society, or possibly even the East Herts Decorative and Fine Art Society - erm – thriving. I’m maybe entirely wrong. Maybe they’ll be a -

JH: A second chain [?]. Okay, so we're going to talk a little bit about the collaboration between the Art Society and the Choral Society.

GB: Yes, this is fascinating. It started 10 years ago, 2008. I know that because I have kept a record of the paintings, we have done each year, or the years we've been asked to do it. And I see that the first set of paintings was dated 2008. So, All Saints Church – nice church - has eight pillars, four on either side going down the central nave. However, one of the eight pillars, hosts a load of loudspeakers. And so that leaves us seven pillars from which to hang large, that is, four feet by two feet pictures -um- illustrating the subject of the concert. And we were asked initially, if we, as a one-off, I think. Would we like to illustrate the first - the concert in 2008, which was Haydn's Creation? Haydn's Creation is delightful. It covers the first seven days of the Creation, as described in Genesis. And the first two or three days, there was dark, and then there was water, then there was light. And it goes on and ends up - there are animals moving on heaven and earth, and then there was Adam and Eve. So, I must have been Chairman of the Hertford Art Society at the time, I suspect. Maybe not.

Anyway, I agreed to put it to our members that they may like to illustrate the theme of ‘the creation’, expecting members to all - those who were supposed to take part - would want to do pictures of animals or of Adam and Eve. In the event, I had enough volunteers for the seven pillars I needed, the seven pictures I needed. But most of them wanted to illustrate in the beginning when there was neither light nor anything else. Because they saw it as an opportunity to paint big abstracts. And I ended up – in fact I did the one of all the animals that move on heaven and earth, no - what am I talking about - heaven and earth? no - all the animals that move on the earth and in the seas. I’ve got rust in my biblical quotations.

Anyway, I painted a load of animals, but most of my colleagues were able to paint some, sort of, rather sombre, black abstracts. That was the first season we painted. We've painted most years since eight of the last 11 years. I counted up last night. And some years it's really quite straightforward. You’d get a theme like the Creation or Israel out of Egypt, which is a flight of the Israelis across the Red Sea and into the Promised Land. And you can illustrate that beautifully. But some years, and this year is one of them, we were asked to illustrate things like the Lord's Prayer, or texts from the Bible, that almost - they are just descriptions of praise to the Lord with no sort of moving parts, no animals, no whales, no birds, no fowls of the air. Just sort of theological ideas.

JH: Abstracts, yes.

GB: Yes. And that's proving a bit of a nightmare this year with our particular concert, because right now, January, they're planning for the March concert. And I sent out the text to the members and invited people to paint; to my fear that - well - well - they’ll – those who are keen enough to read through a text will do so and see absolutely nothing that they can pin their ideas on and say sorry, Geoff, not for you.

JH: There might not be much on the pillars this year.

GB: – but anyway, I’ll just wait and see. I had a response from just one person so far, who's initially said, ‘I can't see anything to illustrate’. But fortunately, 24 hours later, ‘yes, I found something’ – oh - a psaltery as in PSALTERY [GB spells the word psaltery] a psaltery of harps at the dawn of the day, or something and I imagine they’ll paint some musical instruments and the sun rising and you really have to sort of search the text to find even that kind of allusion. I keep complaining to the Hertford Choral Society telling them to ‘get back and choose something really – pictorial’ –

JH: Something to illustrate.

GB: - but their interest is in music I'll be interested to hear Frances Green's sort of - side of it, you know. Something about the music, which will be brilliant? It'll be Bernstein. Leonard? Leonard? Bernstein? The Westside Story man.

JH: Yeah. It's - it is.

GB: He, he put to music, some Psalms, including Psalm 23. The Lord is my Shepherd. So, I guess one or two people will probably fasten on that and show somebody shepherding sheep along the valley. That's an obvious translation. Anyway, that’s the sort of thing we get up to once a year. Some years are easier than other years, is what I’m saying.

The other thing I could talk about is the - the land from our garden, so our house looks onto one of Hertford’s green fingers. And across the valley, is Mangrove Rd on the far side. You can't see it, it’s hidden by trees. When we first came here – it - the land belonged to Christ's Hospital, and the girls would play on the fields there, some afternoons of the week. You couldn't particularly see them, but you could certainly hear them shouting to each other as they tried to whack the hockey balls around, and, as well, a rather pleasant sound. And also, they played tennis up there as well. Well, that all changed when the School closed down and move down to Horsham, I think. So, I believe the fields are now - well, potentially, they aren’t potentially up for development - development, I don't think, because it is a green finger site and - and part of the Green Belt. However, the - the land that's immediately adjacent to Mangrove Rd will be built on. And that's absolutely fine. As long as the trees are kept in place to act as a kind of shield from us on the opposite side of the valley. And I'm sure they feel the same way about looking at us, you know. As long as we keep trees, and hiding our houses, and it preserves a very rural outlook. And the land in between the two Queens Rd and Mangrove Rd is a genuine green finger. It does go into very nearly the centre of the town. And it's an amenity that needs to be kept.

JH: It’s a lovely outlook, isn’t it, and you were saying that there's going to be a possibly a footpath developed.

GB: So that's, yes, that's my reading of the plan. Yes, yes. Yes. It’s - it'll continue as a greenbelt site, but one that's open to the public to walk through. And I think that's a good thing, really. I mean, it does get invaded once every five years or so when there's heavy snow on the ground and then kids are out there with toboggans and make use of the field across the way.

JH: So, thanks very much, Geoff, for your information about both societies. That's really interesting and a little bit about the beautiful view and the green finger that you can see from your conservatory here.

GB: Okay, a pleasure.